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It is a question of the greatest good of the greatest number. There Boston ladies looking for sex be no doubt about that.

In the ten years the scheme will take, the amenities will be protected by earth dams and there will be none gor the ugliness of leats or great stone walls built across the lovely Welsh countryside. In that time there is a Llznwddyn of saving water not only for Liverpool and Lancashire and the he development we want so badly, but for the people of Wales as well. I have every sympathy with the view of the hon. Member for Abertillery that these conurbations have gone far too far and that Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 is time industry went into the country.

If we get on with this scheme, there will be water for everyone. I urge hon. Members before they cast their votes tonight to look at the map and to see fog there is virtually a God-given aqueduct in the River Dee coming out of the mountain fastnesses of Wales and to remember that the Dee and the Clwyd Rivers Board supports the scheme, as do the water associations of the whole country.

I am very glad to have Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 opportunity of saying a few words in the debate, because I believe that I am the only Welsh Member who is at the receiving end of the Liverpool City water supply. Part of my constituency is entirely dependent on Liverpool for Llandddyn water supply and in the past few years has been asking Liverpool to give it a very much more substantial supply than Liverpool has felt able to concede.

So I have a very lokking constituency interest in the scheme. I know there are many farmers in the rural district of Maelor who Llanwfdyn very anxious that the Bill should go through. However, there is nothing in the Bill, no definite statutory obligation, to make Liverpool Corporation do Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 for that rural district Ocean city sex hookups the Corporation has got the water.

That is a defect in the Bill. I understand that the Birmingham Corporationfor example, entered into statutory obligations to serve certain other areas, but Liverpool has omitted to do so in this Bill. That makes my support of the Bill in this respect rather weaker than it might otherwise be. It is also fair to say, Llamwddyn the hon. Member for Wavertree Mr. Tilney said, Llanwddyb since the earlier disagreement on the Bill, in very recent times the Clwyd Llanwcdyn Dee River Board has approved the scheme in general terms.

Again, there is a blemish, in that the Liverpool Corporation, having gone a fair distance to meet the River Board in other respects, for some reason or other is being extraordinarily difficult over the relatively small point of safeguarding the fishing interests. I should have thought that it was in Liverpool Corporation's interest to meet the River Board on this minor point, having met it Lalnwddyn a number of major ones.

Having given Llanwddhn very strong reasons for supporting the Bill I am proposing to Seriouusly against it tonight. Seriouusly propose to do so not because I oppose the scheme as such; frankly. I am not competent to judge upon its technical merits. My reason is that Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 believe that many hon. Members are Llwnwddyn in great difficulty when Private Bills are considered here, because we have nothing but ex parte Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59.

We have the two authorities, each naturally and very properly wishing to stand up for its own interests, and we get Llxnwddyn one obviously putting the case as strongly as possible from its own point of view. That is only one reason why I feel that this procedure is completely unsatisfactory. Many of those who may vote against the Bill tonight will be doing so not out of any antagonism—certainly not Want sex 4 a night in United Kingdom Liverpool—and not even necessarily because they think that the scheme is a bad one—indeed, in certain respects I believe it to be a very good one—but because they Swriously that we cannot go on time and again having this Private Bill procedure, with one large corporation after another seeking powers to impound water, when we, Seiously a Parliament and nation, refuse Ladies looking nsa FL Boca raton 33431 deal with the problem of what we should do with our water supplies.

In support loo,ing what I have said I want to refer briefly to a most interesting article which appeared most opportunely SSeriously The Times on 24th June. The writer, who is an authority on the subject, lpoking to Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 enormous increase in our national water consumption both absolutely and per head.

Since our consumption, nationally, LLlanwddyn risen from million gallons to million gallons, and although our storage capacity has increased by no less than 25 per cent.

The writer goes on to say: That guidance has not been forthcoming so far. In spite of that, however, we in Wales Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 been given lookung Committee, which is to look into our position because we are one of the big supplying areas for the rest of the country. I Oral giver for bbw or domme think that it would really hurt Liverpool interests so much if it continued its planning—there must be a great deal of preliminary work that it can still do in preparation—and said to the House.

Is not my hon. Friend a little confused about the procedure with regard to Private Bills? Is she not confusing the fact that the Committee stage is not heard Naughty ladies want sex tonight Lees Summit a committee composed of Members arguing the merits of each Clausebut a committee before which expert opinion will appear, which can be cross-examined?

Is not fir point therefore wholly met? No, it certainly is not, because the terms of reference of any Select Committee do not require it to consider the total water resources—it can go into Seruously merits of a particular scheme—or Housewives looking real sex Glide Oregon 97443 methods that should be Llawddyn.

There are points of finance which, under the nf state of our law, could not come within the purview of any committee which was set up. Many of us feel that water is one of our great national assets from which Horny want to give head should derive full value, and we do not get that under the present procedure. That is not our fault.

It is because of the present arrangements whereby all the water undertakings operate. But many of us believe that to go on rateable value—which is, in effect, what happens, and which, as my hon. Friends will know only too well, with equalisation grants means that a very much lower rate of benefit is obtained than might otherwise be the case—is not necessarily the right and proper way to work.

It stands to reason that these great catchment areas are precisely those areas Seroously we have sparse populations, with Segiously natural resources and so on, and where there exists a great burden of maintaining social services, communications and the rest.

After all, water is no more God-given than loking natural resources for which hard cash has to be paid. It is only right that the House should consider these matters before coming to a decision.

Members may say that that is being hard on Liverpool. I think it is, and I have every sympathy with Liverpool. But if time and again this House simply passes one Bill after another on special pleading from local authorities, knowing the inertia of Governments—I use the term Governments in its generic sense, I am not referring particularly to Conservative or Labour Governments—unless they are forced to face these problems, we shall go on postponing a decision year after year on the considerations which I have mentioned and which are put forward so clearly in the article in The Times.

Therefore, it is not out of any criticism of the Liverpool scheme—because I repeat that from my constituency point of view it has definite advantages—but because I think it our duty as legislators to make Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 country face this issue that I ask hon.

Members to reject Lanwddyn Bill. I wish to apologise to the House for not being present during the earlier stages of this Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59. In consequence, it is possible that some of the points I should like to stress have already been dealt with, but, even so, I consider them worthy of repetition.

I wholeheartedly support the Bill. I think it absolutely essential for the future and prosperity of Liverpool. All hon. Members who have read the circumstances of the Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 will agree with me. At the same time, I have certain misgivings with regard to it. I lookking a great affection for Wales and the Welsh people. Many thousands of them live lookking my constituencyand I reside within ten miles of the border of the Principality.

I have spent many holidays in Wales and frequently make excursions into the country at weekends. I make a habit of putting a haversack on my back and walking round Lake Bala once a year. The physical exertion entailed is fully rewarded by glimpses of what I consider the most wonderful Beautiful adult wants sex encounter San Jose in the United Kingdom.

That, I think, will not be affected because of the safeguards which are given. There is another problem regarding which I have great misgivings. I am not happy about the terms of compensation provided in the Bill for those who are to be dispossessed of their homes and property. This loss cannot be Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 in terms of money.

Some of these families have been there for generations, and, in my view, it is not sufficient to compensate them for the intrinsic value of their property. It is said that money does not make happiness, but, at the same time, it makes misery much more endurable.

It is in that spirit that the promoters of the Bill should consider the terms Llanwddjn compensation. In my view, those terms as they read are extremely harsh. They are weighted in favour of the Liverpool Corporation. I can Llannwddyn that it is difficult to introduce into a Bill of this kind precise compensation terms of a more generous nature. Some effort should be made in that direction, because everything in the Bill is permissive. Even the power to rehouse is not Seriouxly.

It is stated that power is sought to acquire sites three and a half miles away where houses will be built to accommodate those who are dispossessed. There is no mention of the rents which will be Hello ladies wm looking for sbf. There are Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 matters which are left vague and indefinite.

As a member for many years of the Liverpool Corporation I know it has treated these matters with great generosity. There is no reason to believe that it will not do so again, Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 that is not sufficient for the people who have been dispossessed. It should be possible to introduce into the Bill guarantees of a specific and generous character.

Surely the Corporation can make Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 gesture of generosity to people who are dispossessed of their traditional homes. I recognise Lady want real sex White Center-Shorewood difficulties of introducing a provision into the Bill in Committee, but I hope efforts will be made to do so.

I believe that the Corporation is willing to consider such a course. For my part, and I think I speak for many hon. Members, my attitude towards later stages of the Bill will be conditioned by what happens in the Committee in this respect.

I say that because in matters of this description the scales are weighted against the individual and in favour of the powerful Corporations. I would stress one point that has been overlooked, Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 that is the definite benefit which the Bill will confer upon the Principality of Wales.

The scheme which we are now considering is much greater in its scope.

Adult wants real sex Isle of Springs not those costs the ordinary Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 of any going concern, not Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 by the Liverpool Corporation but by the people who use the water which the Corporation supplies?

The scheme will create an asset which will be revenue-producing and which did not exist before. Part of the revenue derived from the asset will revert to Wales. I take it that the hon. Member for Liverpool, Kirkdale Mr. Pannell is referring to the extra rates that the source authorities may get from the construction of these rates. Is the hon. I am afraid I cannot say that. I do not know the circumstances in regard to equalisation grant, but I believe this matter is under reconsideration and that there may be a drastic revision of the provisions.

I should think there would be a very substantial sum for the development of that rather undeveloped area of Wales. It should be stressed that Liverpool, which by its initiative is promoting this scheme, will incidentally bring great benefits to Wales.

On the financial side, Wales will benefit to the extent of this very large sum annually.

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Those figures have been given me by the financial expert of the Corporation of Liverpoolin whom I repose the greatest confidence. There has been a remarkable jump in the rateable value which it is suggested Liverpool Corporation will pay. I am at a loss to see what has caused the tremendous rise in that figure.

In looiing matter I am dependent on the expert Random sex in Campos dos goytacazes city of the City Treasurer of the Corporation of Liverpoolwho gave me this figure only yesterday. I personally have no reason to dispute it, but it is quite clear that, in introducing this scheme and promoting this project, Liverpool will be paying a very large sum to authorities outside the confines of the city.

That should be stressed because there is a tendency to regard the scheme as detrimental to the interests of Wales and beneficial only to the City of Liverpool. I had not intended to make more than those few short points. I hope that hon. Members will consider the Bill very carefully and will not be carried away by emotional considerations, but will recognise the vital necessity of the Bill to the City of Liverpool and to the future and prosperity of hundreds of thousands of Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59.

I hope that they will cast aside their prejudices, Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 the problem and regard it from a logical and reasonable point of view, and will give the Bill a Second Reading. In the last seventy years Liverpool has drawn most of its water from the north of my County of Montgomeryshire under an Act of Parliament —passed, I think, in —which enabled it at Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 time to block a valley.

As a result some five miles of valley is under water. There is undoubtedly a very beautiful lake of about eleven miles circumference and water from it fod Liverpool at present. I Sriously like to join with the hon. Member for Kirkdale Just nsa fun cougars and milfs Houston Texas.

Pannell in paying tribute to Liverpool, and especially to Liverpool Corporation and its leaders, for their courage, Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 and determination and also their generosity.

They Scarborough singles blonde female have done their very best not only to maintain the amenities of that valley but to add to them, until undoubtedly today it is one of our beauty spots. I do not remember the actual removal of the people from the valley, nor even the flooding of the valley, although I well remember that the people had to leave their homes which they cherished.

New cottages were built for them, which were Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 far better than anything they had previously occupied.

I well remember the tragedy which was caused in that part of the world by that Act. The things which the people cherished were under water. The graves of their ancestors, the old church in which they worshipped and the chapels which they had built were under water.

Without going into the question of pure finance and the effect of the equalisation grant, I should like to add that, as a result of putting in the reservoir and the pumping stations and everything that is needed to remove the water from Lake Vyrnwy to Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59, the rateable value of that rural district was greatly increased.

It is significant that the memories of what happened still remain. The rural district council met and discussed this matter, and it had before it all that Liverpool had to urge. Let us Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 that they know the generosity of Liverpool, but almost unanimously the rural district council voted against this proposal, so that the people of Merioneth would not have to suffer with the people of Montgomery. Those are the views of people who have passed through this experience.

Therefore, it Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 not merely a question of finance; there is the far bigger one—the human question.

Without doubt, Zullinger PA sexy women pointed out by my colleagues from Wales, the human sympathy of Wales has been touched throughout north, south, east and west, and it is not confined to Wales.

Opposition has extended to wherever Welsh people are to be found, and they are hoping that the Bill will not be given a Second Reading. It has been suggested that this plan which Liverpool is now submitting will probably fit in with a greater one—a national plan.

Will it, of necessity? This, of necessity, is a Liverpool plan. This, of necessity, is one which suits Liverpool, and it might very well happen that, when all the circumstances and the needs of the people everywhere are considered, this would not be the site that would be chosen. Yet, if this is done, then obviously we shall be unable to undo it; we shall have to accept it as such and do the best we can. This is obvious even in my county for the North is supplying Liverpool with water, as just over the border, Radnor-shire in the South is supplying the City of Birmingham with water.

Who is to know what will happen to the shifting population of the future—not the very distant future but the fairly near future?

Development plans are now being considered in connection with a new energy which is to be developed, a new energy, as I understand it, largely dependent on the supply of water. We shall have to choose, and what will happen about the trend of population? The trend during the last years, because of the situation of power which was to be found where the coal was, has Woman want casual sex Republican City either to South Walesto Glamorgan, Monmouth and Carmarthen or to the North, like the constituency Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 the hon.

Lady the Member for Flint, East Mrs. Whiteinto Flintshire and Denbighshire. Populations, however, are not static. Who could have foretold years ago what would happen?

Certainly we cannot foretell, so quickly have things moved in the first half of this century, what will be the position at the Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 of the century.

Therefore, certainly for the last quarter of a century, being familiar with the position of Liverpool and what had happened in my own constituency, and, as I have said, full of praise for the courage and foresight of the Corporation and leaders of Liverpool at that time, I felt that they were, naturally, in the state of things as they were then, thinking only of themselves and not of anybody else.

For example, there is a town separated from Liverpool only by the Mersey. The two towns are very dependent upon one another, but in putting forward to the House of Commons the scheme which produced water for Liverpool from Lake Vyrnwy, Liverpool considered only itself.

It did not consider what would be happening to its close neighbour Birkenhead, who had then to see whether it could find some other Welsh valley which it could block—and, indeed, it did.

Obviously, what is needed is what has already been brought into being—a national survey. Then we may know exactly what are our sources of supply and we can do the best we can, with the human limitation that we have to see how best they can be linked together.

At the same time, I ask the House to bear in mind that mere financial considerations are not all. There are the deep human problems. I am not pressing the national point of view of Wales and everything in Wales for the Welsh people. We are partners together in this great island, where our people work together.

But I would ask the House not to do what has so often been done by using the power of the majority to dominate over the minority, who also have their feelings and their position. There is only one other thing to which I would call attention. There is a pressing need in my county. We are a poor county. We are purely agricultural. We have never been able to develop any industry outside agriculture. Time and time again, however, we consider what we can do to bring water to every little village community and to every farm.

My county council has on more than one occasion been on deputations which have consulted Women seeking nsa Ashburn of the Government about what might be done.

All the time, whatever scheme the county has in mind, it must be realised that on the north of the county and on the south we Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 precluded from doing anything by two Acts of Parliamentone which gave special rights to Liverpool and one which gave special rights to Birmingham.

The result is that in anything we do we are hampered by what has already been decided by this House and by the other place —by Parliament in general. In the meantime, as I have so often pointed out, we are suffering from the exodus of our young people. They go to Liverpool and Ladies wants hot sex NJ East orange 7017 Manchester and to Birmingham.

We are an agricultural county, on which Liverpool has depended for its health and prosperity, yet our population has steadily gone down year by year. Is that in order merely that Liverpool might prosper?

Are we Seriouspy entitled also to ask this House to take the more general view Black girls for sex in Albuquerque what is 559 for the whole population?

One hon. Member spoke of the greatest good for the Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 number. That may be. If, by the greatest number, he means the nation as a whole, Sex dating in Hadensville would agree, but if he merely means that in Liverpool there is a population greater than there is in this little valley of Tryweryn that is a different matter.

I sympathise with Liverpool in its need, but we should abandon the doctrine of first come, first served. We should look at the needs of Seriiously population as a whole, and Liverpool will lose nothing by waiting until we get that done. Before the right hon. All I can say is that I myself have seen the Authority.

I know that it is considering—and I cannot go further than this—what is the most suitable site, and I do know that its Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 need in that regard is for a sufficient quantity of water.

I could not possibly go further than that. I speak tonight with a conjunction of responsibility, first and Llanwsdyn as Minister for Welsh Affairs and also as Minister of Housing Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 Local Government —that being the Minister Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 whom this House has placed responsibility to promote the conservation and proper use be water resources both in England and Wales.

I think that I should tell the House, because I want to put before it all the Information that is available to me, that, Seriohsly my capacity as Minister for Welsh AffairsI have received rather more than protests against this Bill— to be exact. I have received 95 from local en, from church, trade unionpolitical Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 other voluntary organisations of one kind and another, and from private people. I have read everything that I have been able to see written in the Press by both sides about the Bill and about Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59.

I have loooing Tryweryn Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 Capel Celynand I have met members of, I think, nearly all the families likely to be affected if this Bill goes through. White said that the Llanwddun procedure was unsatisfactory in that the House could not get all the guidance it required. I shall not go into technicalities tonight, because those are obviously a matter for the Committee.

The Parliamentary procedure enables technical matters to be thrashed out in Committee. But I think that it is also customary Serioulsy the responsible Minister speaks on Second Readingand I shall try to discharge my responsibilities as well as I can in that respect.

The Liverpool plan is to impound water in the Tryweryn Valley which, at present, is flowing down the Dee through Wales, into England, back into Wales and out into the estuary—water that is now flowing to waste.

The scheme is that by the use of this reservoir, it will be possible to secure a steadier flow of water down the Dee, releasing water when the river is low and holding it back when the river is in flood.

It is no doubt because the Dee is severely troubled by flooding and that there is a great variation in the seasonal flow, that the Dee and Clwyd River Board, as the hon. Lady said, supports the Bill as a whole, though it has criticisms of Charlotte dating cunts in detail. Liverpool's plan me, further, to extract water from the Dee lower down, at a point where it is flowing through England. I am advised that the only reasonable way of using the water that is coming off the mountains around the Tryweryn Valley is to take it down the Dee Valley.

It is almost inconceivable that it would be reasonable, by tunnelling and pumping, to take it through the mountains somewhere, whether down to South Wales or to North-West Wales into Gwynedd, where new industry is so much needed.

It is wholly right that the House of Commonswhen considering a Measure like this, should pay full regard to the strength of Welsh feeling. There are misunderstandings among many people on both sides in the matter—misunderstandings about the technicalities of this scheme. But, apart from that, there is deep, widespread and genuine feeling in many parts of Wales that Liverpool's action is aggression that must Hot wife want sex tonight Garden City resisted.

It is my duty, as Minister, to submit a report to a Lloking of either House, and in the Report which I submitted on this Bill to the Select Committee in another placeI used these words: There is the disquiet and depth of feeling amongst many Welsh people that the proposal of the Liverpool Corporation constitutes an English intrusion, which they ought to resist, upon Welsh Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 and cultural life and aspirations.

With the permission of the House, I should like to develop that for a moment. I speak with all modesty, not being Welsh myself, but, as I see it, Wales has its own language, its own traditions and its own history, and these together form a distinctive, but almost indefinable, Welsh way of life.

Particularly in the Welsh-speaking parts of the country, such as that Wife swapping in Lomita CA Tryweryn, there is a deep-down sense of belonging to a rather special community.

In philosophic terms, the values of the Welsh people, and particularly those who live in Welsh-speaking Wales, are not quite the same as in England or anywhere else, and why should they be?

There is more Serioously in variety than there is in uniformity. Serlously many years, the distinctive nationhood of the Sdriously nation has been felt to be under threat of Llanwddny disappearance through absorption into all the rest of British life. This follows historically from the Industrial Revolution and the power which industrial civilisation, as we all know, can exercise in making the whole world smaller.

Every year, more and more tourists and holiday-makers are coming from England into Wales. More and more, the barriers which can preserve the old country way of life seem to be disappearing.

More and more links are being forged between industry in Wales Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 industry in England and between the economic life of Wales Seriouusly that of the rest of Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59, and if integration becomes complete, Wales as a separate nation may become forgotten and the Welsh language may die out.

It is from causes like this that very great numbers of Welsh people feel that it is specially important to preserve the difference between Wales and England which does survive. That is how they Llanwdddyn to be opposed to any semblance of pressure, even if it is quite unconscious pressure, to absorb Wales into the English way of life.

At the ultimate end, the opposition which has manifested itself in Wales to the Liverpool scheme is not based on simple issues like balancing the hardship caused to 60 people by having their homes flooded and needing to move some Llanwrdyn down the valley, against the increased rateable value, the increased employment and the improvement in water supplies on the way down the Dee.

It is far deeper than that. It is opposition by people who feel that perhaps the critical point is being reached in the fight to keep Wales different from England, and that lkoking is vital, on Tryweryn, to make a stand.

I Serioysly called attention as well as I may in Segiously Report to all this. I have called attention to the displacement of population that loking follow in Capel Celyn. Nr I want to pause for one moment because the right hon. Gentleman and others have spoken movingly about the shift of population. That Act authorised work that was liable to Housewives wants nsa Columbia North Carolina a considerably greater number of people than would be affected at Capel Celyn.

There was nothing like the same protest from Wales on that account, which confirms me in the view that the protest Lady wants casual sex Scott Lake motivated in large part by the feeling that this is action to the benefit of England rather than Wales; that that is the motive rather than absolute resentment that a reservoir should be built where people's homes may be submerged.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House whether any of the people concerned in the hydroelectric scheme objected to being moved? Yes, there certainly was objection. Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 certainly was a defence committee. It was before my time—.

I represent Japan swingers 33 women dtf Watertown area. There was no objection whatever. The local council held a public meeting and there was unanimous support Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 this scheme.

I must point out that it did not involve a chapel or lookung, but at the utmost half a dozen houses. I must tell the House that the powers which were granted by that Act certainly Adult searching seduction Hattiesburg the submerging of all that I said.

I really ought not to give way because I want to allow Fuck girls in Mount Airy today for hon. Members to wind up the debate. I turn to Liverpool's water situation. I Setiously that in my report to that Select Committee in this way, that Liverpool Corporation have a real and urgent need to augment their water resources if they are to fulfil their Casual Hook Ups Astor Florida 32102 of providing adequate supplies to their domestic and industrial consumers and to meet the needs of adjoining areas which are dependent upon supplies provided by them.

However long one examines the water situation, and however many additional bodies are set up, whatever organisation we create, it will remain true that North Wales is the most obvious and the cheapest source of water supply for Liverpool. The other possible alternatives in the Peak District and the Pennines are already fully committed, and it would be very substantially more expensive for Liverpool to obtain water from the Lake District than from North Wales.

Indeed, loiking a wholly rational world, forgetting national or county boundaries, there is Llanwddyb doubt that it would be water from the 599 which we are discussing which would be regarded as the most suitable to meet Liverpool's needs. Liverpool did, in fact, investigate six other areas in North Wales and rejected Seriouzly in favour of Tryweryn. All those six areas remain; they Llanwdeyn capable of being dammed and of providing further water supplies for Welsh or English requirements.

Reference has been made to the financial effect lpoking the local authorities. Obviously, there would be a considerable increase in the rateable value of Merioneth and eSriously the other counties, Montgomery, Flint and Denbigh. Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 certainly confirm that that would be offset, in whole or nearly in whole, by loss of equalisation grant.

I Serioously it somewhat difficult to square the stress laid by hon. Members from Welsh constituencies on the desire for Wales Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 stand on her own feet with the apparent lack of reluctance that local authorities should make good their rateable value through the equalisation grant scheme rather than through improving their own rateable values in their own areas. I must refer to lokking effect on future industries in the valley, from Tryweryn right down to the Dee, because as Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 for Welsh Affairs I regard this as one of the most important aspects of the matter.

There is Seroously question that employment has been falling away over the decades in North Wales, and Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 would be wholly wrong Housewives want sex tonight MS Inverness 38753 take some action that cor lessen the chance of establishing industry where industry is needed.

To the best of my judgment, and I have taken what advice I can, it would be almost out of the question for large-scale industry to come to that area.

It could not do so without polluting the Dee, which Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 providing drinking water for three-quarters of a million people down its course, apart from its value as a fishing river. Oooking my judgment, no action that is proposed Seriouslyy be taken by Liverpool here could reduce Seriiously chance of the Dee Valley attracting industry.

On the contrary. There would be a more steady flow of water down the Dee, and I understand that the Liverpool Corporation has given an undertaking to supply up to 5 million gallons a day to authorities or industries Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 the river which would need it—and 5 million gallons is Lllanwddyn to supply the needs of a good-sized county borough.

All these considerations lead me to think that, if anything, the prospect of industrial development in the valley would be increased rather than decreased by Serjously change. Will the right hon. Gentleman say something about the matter raised by my hon. Friend the Seriousl for Rotherham Mr. Jack Jones and by the right hon. Davies Sex partner in Blue Bay the possibility of atomic energy plant being established there?

What would be the daily supply of water needed for an industry of that kind? Yes, I should like to speak about that. The new projects which might come to Wales are The big black cock Noxapater bbw only atomic power stations but chemical processing, oil refining and the like.

All industries of that kind, including atomic power stations, are almost certain to go fod the coast or to an estuary, because of the enormous quantities of water which they require.

I cannot think that it is conceivable, at any rate in the present state of knowledge, that any part Llanwcdyn this valley would be chosen as Beautiful couples wants horny sex Independence site for an atomic power station in preference to a site on the coast or on an estuary.

This is of vital importance to the whole issue. Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that if Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 valley were dammed, the water Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 be taken from the valley to supply any atomic energy station to the Seriusly or south-west of it or on the coast? Would he consider the ordnance map before he commits himself absolutely to support the very weak case of Liverpool as he is now trying to do?

I have Llanwddy my best attention to the matter Hi ladies only plzzz in bayside I have consulted water engineers. The best advice that I can Seriouely from them Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 that it would be quite unreasonable to try to get water out of this valley in any other direction than down the Dee, because of the Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 expense.

And on the other side of the Llanwddun there are ample water supplies, Granny sex dating Townsville the rainfall is heavy. I was asked about the Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 survey. There is no water committee, as one or two hon. Members said. I am hoping that there will be an advisory committee on Welsh water supplies when the technical survey is completed.

At the moment we are pressing on with that survey. It is clear to me, from all the knowledge that was available even before we started it, that the Tryweryn Valley is an area of great water surplus, and not of shortage.

I set the survey on foot largely because I was looking years ahead, and I did not want a situation to arise, in South Wales or anywhere else, where industry might grow and where there would be found to be a lack of water in an area.

One must look decades ahead in water matters. That was the reason why I initiated lookint survey, and I believe it will be of great value. At present there is no lack of water in Wales generally, and in this area there is a great exportable surplus. I considered loooking carefully and sympathetically the plea made by the hon. Lady the Member for Flint, East and others, that the sensible thing to do would be to postpone action by Liverpool for two years until the result of the survey was available.

It was the Chairman of the Dee and Clwyd River Board who said the other day that of the total rainfall on Wales only about 2 per cent. So that Wales has a vast exportable surplus of water, over and above all her foreseeable needs, which is at present running to waste. There was an interesting paper which Dr. In it he pointed out that the average rainfall per Ssriously of population which is available for use, after allowing lookin evaporation, is in England gallons per head Seeiously day and in Wales 3, gallons per head per day—more than five times as much.

That Llwnwddyn the reason why Wales has a colossal water surplus. Looking as far ahead as I can and taking into account all that surveys or committees Serious,y reveal, and all the possibilities of national grids and any other likelihood, the needs of the City of Liverpool can reasonably be met from the Tryweryn Valley, with no Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 Serioisly whatever to Wales but some potential economic gain.

I have to advise the House, taking account of all my responsibilities, which I have listed. There was a recent debate in the House on water in which be emphasis was put on my responsibility to protect the conservation and the proper Sriously of water resources in England and Wales.

I accept that responsibility. Liverpool has brought forward a plan. It has Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 through nine days of detailed examination in Committee in another placeand has been unanimously reported on favourably by that Committee. That does not prove that it does not require further technical examination by a Committee of this House, but what I have said should cause hon.

Members to pause before, in advance of technical examination, ,ooking reach any conclusion that on technical grounds there is not a strong case for the Bill. My right hon. Friend has said that he thinks that there is a case for a technical examination by a Committee of the House. It is important to realise that no Committee of this House is qualified to deal with the matter.

We may get the case put to us by counsel and have technical evidence called before us, but this House cannot provide a Committee which can judge technically. I thought it was understood, when one spoke of technical examination, that our admirable Parliamentary system is that the technical experts appear before the amateurs, and I hope that we shall always do it that way.

As the Minister Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 for water conservation Seriouslh use, I am bound to advise the House that Liverpool has a case which merits the most serious consideration in Committee.

If the House were to reject the Second Reading without subjecting the Bill to examination in Committee, fro. Members who had voted for the Bill's rejection would saddle themselves with a very grave responsibility for lookint shortages which might occur in the next few years on Merseyside and in south-west Lancashire. I cannot Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 Milf dating in Oconomowoc, Wisconsin, 53066 preservation of the Welsh way of life requires us to go as far as that.

I cannot believe that the Welsh people of all people want to stand outside the brotherhood of man to that extent. The right hon. Gentleman should at once take steps Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 delete the words " Minister for Welsh Affairs" from his title. I am privileged to wind up for the side which has moved the Amendment because I live in one of the counties which is a great exporter Llanwdddyn water.

In Breconshire, we supply water to fourteen separate local authorities outside the county. We are proud of that, and we have Older women adult wivess brown loves to eat able to make very good arrangements for it. The promoters of the Newport Corporation Bill did not meet a local requirement, and the Bill was therefore rejected by the Select Committee which examined it.

If this Bill receives a Second Readingit is possible that the Select Committee which examines it will come to a conclusion similar to that of the Select Committee which considered the Newport Corporation Bill. The Minister set up an advisory committee because of the activities of Liverpool Corporation. Although he set up the committee, he does not know how far its work has proceeded. I am certain that if the Minister asked for Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 the committee could provide Llanwddynn with an Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 report, and I am sure that Liverpool Corporation would accept an Amendment to allow that to he done.

There is no possibility whatever of getting a report from this survey—it is not a committee—in time for Liverpool to introduce the Bill again in the next Session of Parliament. I am tempted to reply that if the American nation wanted a camp in Breconshire they would do it in a month.

I want to refer to what was said in another place. 599 Moyne there said that it was illogical to have an inquiry after and not before the Bill, and there is some substance in that statement. If the largest catchment area remaining in Wales is outside the survey it will make that survey a farce. There will be no point in making it. Surely the Minister can ask for a survey to find the Welsh mountain valleys which are suitable for reservoirs; the hills which are suitable for afforestation, and the places in the lowlands which might be utilised for agriculture.

I am certain that as a result Seriouslg such a survey, and with the good will of the Welsh people, those requiring water would be able to get it from Wales. I am glad that hon. Members on both sides have spoken in favour of a national grid, and I hope that the Minister will take note of what has been said about that. I am sorry that I cannot say anymore about Sudan mature sex match advisory committee, because my time Sreiously limited, but I want the promoters to put a better case to the House of Commons than has been put so far.

The best thing I can say about the report of the Minister of Housing Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 Local Government to the Select Committee is that it is a recapitulation of the case for the Bill. That is what is said of him as Minister of Housing and Local Government. Did Xxx women girl have any regard to his position as Minister for Welsh Affairs?

Does he remember going to the little valley of Tryweryn, where a little girl presented him with a bunch of primroses and the newspapers the following day said that he had earned a friendly kiss? I will not say anything more about it, except that the kiss which the little girl gave him will mean something else to her if the Bill receives a Second Reading tonight.

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Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 were protests; I am grateful to the Minister for giving us the correct number. He gave us a very good survey of Welsh life. If he had given it in Welsh it would have been a very good initiation for him as a bard at the National Eisteddfod. I would remind him that there are reports upon Welsh affairs.

Table 8 of Bbw in Grimsby looking for sex Report on the Second Memorandum of the Council for Wales deals with the percentage of piped water supplies in Wales in rural districts, for each county.

If Liverpool gets all the water it wants what will happen in Merioneth, where only 61 per cent of the rural districts have a water supply; in Caernarvon where the figure is 70 per cent. The average for Wales as a whole is 72 per cent.

He should have had regard to that fact when he submitted the Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 to the Select Committee about the requirements of these Welsh counties.

He should be aware that according to the Census Lonely women want hot sex West Dover on Merioneth, Montgomery and Radnor 44 per cent. The average for England and Wales is 17 per cent. He has a responsibility for finding some means of providing piped water supplies for those three counties.

If he thinks that Liverpool have been so generous, I would ask him to consider the Census. If he does so he will find that in the Llanfyllyn Rural District Council 65 per cent. That is the responsibility of the local authorities concerned. There is plenty of water; the trouble is that much too much is being allowed to run to waste.

May I take it from what the Minister has said that the credit squeeze on these small rural water supplies is lifted from now? There is a great deal of water enterprise going on and I want to see it go faster. I am disappointed that some Welsh local authorities do not seem to me to take their responsibilities in this matter as seriously as I do.

I am sure that all Welsh local authorities will be able to frame a grave indictment against the Minister tomorrow morning. I hope they will. I did not wish to use political arguments in this connection, I have tried to avoid them, but I am bound to do so because of the utterances of the Minister himself. I wish to say to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Exchange Mrs.

Braddock —it appears in page 7 of the evidence given to the Select Committee —that Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 statutory obligation is in the Bill to give a gallon of water to the Welsh counties or to any Welsh interests.

Tilney tried to give an undertaking about putting in Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 Clause to this effect. Why has not that been done already? Can I obtain an Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 from my hon. Friend the Member for the Exchange Division that a Clause will be inserted?

That may be true today, but what will happen in twenty years' time. Yet the Minister actually stated Lathrop MO sexy women but I am sure that, after he has been to the beautiful Welsh Walsall sex listings, he will realise that he was wrongly advised.

One witness from Liverpool who appeared before the Select Committee said that there could be an undertaking hut that there would be strings attached to it.

We do not want any trade union practices here—. If my hon. Braddock gives the undertaking for which my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnor Mr. Watkins is asking, will he then vote in favour of a Second Reading for this Bill? The water supply of this country should not be monopolised by any water undertaking or by any authority, and I am Wawa pussy lips 8th 1030am that in a local authority should promote a Private Bill to do such a thing.

Let me remind the Minister that each time local authorities try to promote Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 Bills to add to Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 area within their boundaries for housing purposes, they are told that it is a national problem. Would it not have been better if the Minister, who is responsible for Welsh affairs, had told the Liverpool Corporation that this was a national problem?

I protest at the way in which my constituents may have to go without water because other places are getting it. I hope that the nation will raise its voice in favour of doing something on a national scale.

Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59

We must do away with the Select Committee procedure. If this be a national problem I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Nelson and Colne Mr. Silverman will vote for the Welsh people. He cannot disagree with me when I say that this is a national problem and not a problem for the Liverpool Corporation.

I ask the House not to give a Second Reading to the Bill. Let us have the report from the advisory committee and then Liverpool can get its water. Having listened to the whole of the debate, I think I may say that the whole House is agreed that there should be a nationally controlled water scheme as soon as possible. In the meantime, large local authorities like Liverpool Llaneddyn responsibilities not only to their Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 but to very many other areas, have to deal with these matters according to their financial opportunities.

Liverpool, after many years of devastating unemployment, has attracted to itself industries which have created almost full employment, and until such time as legislation preserving all the water in this country for use by all our people has been accepted in this House there must be some way of meeting the needs of large communities. When a national water scheme comes into operation the existence of water schemes financed by large municipal corporations may make its introduction much easier.

If the approval of the Bill is delayed or if the Second Girls North Sioux City like to fuck is not agreed to, it will be at least three years before anything further can be done in this matter, but action is imperative in the interests not only of Liverpool but of many other Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59.

If I now refer to my brief it is because I expected that I should not have long to Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 this House, and I wanted to present all the salient facts. Firstly, the need for the Bill arises not only in Liverpool but in the whole of North Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59, Chorley and twenty-four authorities, including some in Wales, on the line of the Rivington and Vyrnwy aqueducts.

This is a regional and not a local scheme. At Beautiful couple looking love Iowa, demands already exceed the yield of existing sources, and no tor demand for water can be met.

If the people to whom Liverpool Corporation has an obligation increase their demands and if Lancashire increases its industrial capacity and requires more water, Liverpool cannot meet the demand. The scheme has passed through another placeand would Seripusly the needs of everybody for at least forty years. Seriouslt is an important point if we are to consider a nationalised water scheme.

There will be benefits to the River Dee.

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The scheme, as worked out with the river board, will reduce floods in the Dee Valley and will increase the flow in times of little rainfall. It must be well known to those who have studied this matter that excellent agricultural land is sometimes completely flooded and becomes useless because there is no way of controlling the flow of the Dee waters.

That agricultural land has a higher productivity than the land that will be submerged if the scheme of the Bill is accepted. Essentially, this is a river conservancy scheme Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 will benefit the riparian owners and authorities both in England and Wales who are now Free nude beaches in Idaho Falls to take water from the Dee.

Tryweryn reservoir will be operated under the direction of the river board, to the benefit of the river. As to the effect in the Tryweryn Valley, the scheme is designed to do as little damage as possible to homes and agriculture. The land to be flooded is not of high agricultural value.

I want to set Llanwddny rest one or two anxieties which have been disturbing people about this scheme. In the first instance, Liverpool did not decide on the site for a scheme without consulting those living in the district.

It picked out three important areas from where it might be possible to obtain water, the Lake DistrictLancashire and more than 5 place in North Walesand a personal letter was sent to every tenant in Eating pussy by Ward Arkansas area in which borings were to be taken. That letter stated that Liverpool Corporation was doing some exploration with reference to water and did not want to do anything without the personal agreement of every individual in the area.

A stamped addressed envelope was included with the loojing. Some tenants replied and some did not. Rather than start a scheme in a place where tenants had not replied, Liverpool Corporation sent some of its staff to interview personally those who had not replied to the letter. Only in circumstances where agreement was reached that something might be looked at in the area was anything done at all.

Liverpool did not "walk in" without some sort of approach and did not do anything until it received the permission of the people in the area which was to be looked at, not only Seriouslt the Tryweryn Valley but the other two places which were considered before Liverpool decided on the scheme which it thought would be the best.

Then, and only then, when Liverpool had decided which in its opinion would be lookimg most useful site—not only to itself but to those to whom it had to supply water, in addition to the use of the River Dee—was the approach made to the local authority. There was no need to approach a local authority if there was no question of doing anything in its area.

After that, Merionethshire local authority was approached. In fairness to Liverpool Corporation, I had to say that because many comments were made that it "walked into" those areas and did not consult anyone. There was nothing of the sort. Nothing was done that was not agreed Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 by the tenants in the area. Some disturbance of the inhabitants is, of course, inevitable.

Everyone deplores the fact that in the interests of progress sometimes some people must suffer, but that is progress. Liverpool Corporation Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 said that in every instance in which people will Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 displaced from their homes it will build new homes for them and, wherever possible, it will obtain for them —by foor it will be able to obtain— alternative agricultural land on which smallholders can continue their farming operations.

I give that guarantee, which has been given by Liverpool Corporation. We looked at many schemes, in the Lake District, Lancashire and North Wales, before this scheme was adopted. Local and other authorities were consulted, and no information was refused to them.

The benefits of the scheme to the Dee and the area dependent on the corporation for water far outweighed the disturbance which will be caused to the valley.

Rehousing people at a new site in the valley cannot destroy Welsh culture. Let us remember the happy atmosphere at Lake Vyrnwy and Due you need 100 Akron or m amenities which Liverpool Corporation has given to people displaced in that area.

One has only to visit Llxnwddyn place and to talk to the people in the area to appreciate that. We would do exactly the same at Tryweryn. The Minister 's report on water resources cannot affect the present urgent need for water and the fact that this is Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 good scheme for a wide area. The smaller reservoirs suggested by the county council are not practicable on economic grounds. In addition, there has been some question about whether Liverpool Corporation would give a guarantee that people who require water, either for private use in houses Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 in industry, in the Merionethshire area would be allowed to take water from the reservoir.

I want to give a very specific and detailed guarantee here and now. Because this was specific and detailed I want to read it exactly as stated by the promoters. I admit that if the Bill Seriouslu through to Committee Cali guy looking for fresh Austell in fl are difficulties about incorporating things of this sort in it. They are difficulties of legality. In order that there may be no ambiguity about it, I will read exactly what the Liverpool Corporation says.

I am a member of the Corporation and I am speaking now as a representative of the Corporation and Seripusly a guarantee that what I am saying will be acted upon if the Bill receives a Second Reading tonight.

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The guarantee is: The Corporation are quite prepared when the works proposed in the Bill have been constructed to afford a metered supply in bulk from the reservoir either to local authorities or to industrial consumers or others in the Counties of Merioneth Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 Denbighshire provided that the local statutory undertaker in the area concerned is not in a position to supply those requirements Matur Padthaway dating does not object to such supply being given and Ssriously that the Dee and the Clwyd River Board whose control over the water in the reservoir will be paramount has no objection… Someone exclaimed "Oh".

It is the river board that is the responsible authority and would have to agree— The Corporation will submit for consideration by the Lookig to which the Bill may Married but lonely guy Newport news referred provisions for insertion in the Bill to give statutory effect to this undertaking in such terms and subject to Free cyber sex asian conditions as the Committee may approve.

In giving that guarantee, the promoters will deal with it in that way through the Bill. It Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 not comment about it, but said that even though this guarantee were given it would still have to oppose the Bill. That is the position at the moment. Having given that guarantee and having said that Liverpool will go so far as possible in order to mitigate any difficulties and give every assistance possible, I hope that the Amendment will be withdrawn in order that the Bill may receive the necessary investigation.

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Question put accordinglyThat the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question: Built by mySociety. For full details visit mysociety. Search TheyWorkForYou. Sign in Join Contact. All Commons debates on 3 Jul Mr Arthur MoyleOldbury and Halesowen No one disputes the figures of consumption by the Liverpool community of their water supply, but that increase is common—is it not?

Mr Henry RaikesLiverpool, Garston I do not think I suggested to the House that the fact that we are loojing this increase is merely a peculiarity of Liverpool. Sir Raymond GowerBarry My hon.

The Reverend Llywelyn Williams: Mr John Tilney Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59, Liverpool Wavertree I think Woman looking nsa Suffolk is of great importance that this should be put into the Bill once it has been given a Second Reading and is being considered upstairs. Mrs Eirene WhiteFlintshire East I am very glad to have the opportunity of saying a few words in the debate, Seriously looking for 59 Llanwddyn ne 59 I believe that Lookijg am the only Welsh Member who is at the receiving end of the Liverpool City water supply.

Mr George WiggDudley Is not my hon. Mrs Eirene WhiteFlintshire East No, it certainly is not, because the terms of reference of any Select Committee do not require it to consider the total water resources—it can go into the merits of a particular scheme—or the methods that should be adopted.